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Post by guschiggins on Feb 5, 2007 13:56:55 GMT -5
So we shouldn't bet on a team that's competitive with every other team in the NHL to have a chance in the playoffs, but we should bet on a mediocre AHL goalie to suddenly be "hot at the right time" and dominate in the playoffs? According to most posters around here, it doesn't matter who your goalie is, as long as he's hot in the playoffs. The chances of a young goalie dominating are just as good as the chances of an old goalie dominating. See: Giguere, Kiprusoff, Ward, Miller, etc. 6 of the last 8 conference finalists had young starters in net. If you have a guy with the skill and the training to be an NHL starter, like Howard does, then the smart move would be to get him into at least 20 NHL games next season, make sure the rest of the team is solid, particularly the defense - and I mean DEFENSIVELY solid - and give him a shot in the playoffs. If you're worried about not making the playoffs, then pair him with a guy that can win a lot of regular season games (try to find another Manny), and go with the hot hand in the playoffs. If it's Howard, then it's Howard. The guy has been a big game goalie his entire career. His only problem is consistency, as was evident in last year's AHL playoffs. He'll never get any experience unless you give him a chance. As for him being mediocre, that's just stupid. He was great last season, when he had a good team in front of him. This year's team is bad, and his numbers aren't great. But they're not terrible either. He needs to get healthy and have a solid playoff. After that, it's out of his hands. I hope he gets a chance.
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Post by djoos36 on Feb 5, 2007 14:40:49 GMT -5
So we shouldn't bet on a team that's competitive with every other team in the NHL to have a chance in the playoffs, but we should bet on a mediocre AHL goalie to suddenly be "hot at the right time" and dominate in the playoffs? According to most posters around here, it doesn't matter who your goalie is, as long as he's hot in the playoffs. The chances of a young goalie dominating are just as good as the chances of an old goalie dominating. See: Giguere, Kiprusoff, Ward, Miller, etc. 6 of the last 8 conference finalists had young starters in net. If you have a guy with the skill and the training to be an NHL starter, like Howard does, then the smart move would be to get him into at least 20 NHL games next season, make sure the rest of the team is solid, particularly the defense - and I mean DEFENSIVELY solid - and give him a shot in the playoffs. If you're worried about not making the playoffs, then pair him with a guy that can win a lot of regular season games (try to find another Manny), and go with the hot hand in the playoffs. If it's Howard, then it's Howard. The guy has been a big game goalie his entire career. His only problem is consistency, as was evident in last year's AHL playoffs. He'll never get any experience unless you give him a chance. As for him being mediocre, that's just stupid. He was great last season, when he had a good team in front of him. This year's team is bad, and his numbers aren't great. But they're not terrible either. He needs to get healthy and have a solid playoff. After that, it's out of his hands. I hope he gets a chance. Drat... called stupid by the proponent of the "lottery ticket" theory of goaltending... I guess it's not my day. Aren't you one of those "regular season is meaningless" guys? I'm not saying Howard doesn't have more potential than most AHL goalies, but his performance so far hasn't been anything special. He was unreliable in the playoffs last year. And even in the regular season last year, in front of a "good team" he was 9th in GAA and 14th in SV%. And how can you say that Howard has been a big game goalie "his entire career" (which is like a whole 5 years long), and then, in the next sentence, acknowledge that he wasn't good in the the playoffs last year. Weren't those big games? Hey, I'm hopeful that Howard proves he belongs in the NHL. But I've seen him play, and I've never been that impressed. As far as I'm concerned it's not a "smart move" to throw whatever young goalie you happen to have lying around into the playoffs on the off chance he gets hot.
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Post by guschiggins on Feb 5, 2007 15:18:36 GMT -5
Not calling you stupid, I'm calling your idea stupid, because it is. Howard is not a mediocre AHL goalie.
In his first pro season, Howard went 27-6-2 for a really good team. He's currently 12-12-1 for a team that's really not that good. For a guy his age, that's very good. There are 7 goalies younger than him with better GAAs, and only two have played as many games as Howard. Likewise, only two players younger than him with as many appearances have better save %. And he's tied for 6th in shutouts despite missing several weeks with an ankle injury.
I never said it was smart to throw him in just to throw him in. I said, the smart move would be to keep him in Detroit next season, get him 20-30 starts, and go with the hot hand. If Howard is the hot hand, then they shouldn't be afraid to go with him, because history has proven that this tactic is just as successful as any other. The problem is, they have to make the commitment to him at the beginning of next season, to keep him on the roster and give him starts with Detroit. He's never going to be NHL ready if he spends another 3 or 4 years in the AHL.
I've seen Howard play too. I saw his semifinals performance with Maine when he made 60+ saves, and I've been sold on him since. And I saw a few of his playoff games last season, and while he was inconsistent in stretches, he had several stretches where he was absolutely brilliant. The goalie from that semifinals game is still there. If they're ever going to give him a realistic chance to be their starting goaltender before he's 40, they have to get him started next fall, and at the very least, they have to give him every opportunity to make the team.
I haven't seen any actions yet from Ken Holland that would suggest he'd ever consider giving Howard a roster spot unless he were absolutely forced by injuries. That bothers me.
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Post by bootland27 on Feb 5, 2007 15:18:43 GMT -5
Thanks goodness we don't have that problem, but if it's between Osgood and Howard, I'm going to roll the dice with Howard
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Post by djoos36 on Feb 5, 2007 15:49:20 GMT -5
I haven't seen any actions yet from Ken Holland that would suggest he'd ever consider giving Howard a roster spot unless he were absolutely forced by injuries. That bothers me. I think Holland is just being patient with Howard. Look at Ryan Miller, the Sabres took their time in making him the #1 guy, and it's worked out very well. I could understand your arguments more if Howard were 25 and still hadn't gotten a whif of the NHL or if he were tearing up the AHL. But neither of those is the case. He's still only 22 and has had only limited success with the Griffins. I see no reason to rush him into the NHL playoffs.
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Post by toledowingsfan on Feb 5, 2007 16:01:18 GMT -5
Not calling you stupid, I'm calling your idea stupid, because it is. Howard is not a mediocre AHL goalie. Yeah, someday he might even be as good as Drew MacIntyre.
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Post by toledowingsfan on Feb 5, 2007 16:04:17 GMT -5
I haven't seen any actions yet from Ken Holland that would suggest he'd ever consider giving Howard a roster spot unless he were absolutely forced by injuries. That bothers me. So would you rather see him out there playing the point on the powerplay?
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Post by guschiggins on Feb 5, 2007 16:30:16 GMT -5
I haven't seen any actions yet from Ken Holland that would suggest he'd ever consider giving Howard a roster spot unless he were absolutely forced by injuries. That bothers me. I think Holland is just being patient with Howard. Look at Ryan Miller, the Sabres took their time in making him the #1 guy, and it's worked out very well. I could understand your arguments more if Howard were 25 and still hadn't gotten a whif of the NHL or if he were tearing up the AHL. But neither of those is the case. He's still only 22 and has had only limited success with the Griffins. I see no reason to rush him into the NHL playoffs. Over his first two pro seasons, Miller got 18 starts. He would have been with Buffalo in 04-05 if not for the lockout. So the "Ryan Miller" model is inflated artificially by that one lockout year. In reality, Miller was given two years in the AHL, with frequent callups, and then the next NHL season, he was given a share of the goaltending duties with Biron. There's no reason to rush him. I never said we should rush him. Again, I don't know where you're getting that. I'm saying we should give him a chance to stick with the NHL club out of camp next year, so that by the time the playoffs roll around, if he's the hot goalie, he has 20-30 NHL starts to go with the 2 full AHL seasons under his belt. Better than betting on Osgood, watching him get injured, and trading for Bill Ranford again. If they don't make room for him to at least back up in Detroit, then he's never going to become a starter. The only thing less plausible than Holland going with a rookie backup is Holland going with a rookie starter. He'll probably have to apprentice at the NHL level for at least one season before the brass trusts him enough. And even that's a stretch. Anyone who thinks that Howard would be allowed to go straight from the AHL to the starter's job in Detroit is kidding themselves. Whether he could handle it or not, we'll never find out, because Holland will never allow it.
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Post by djoos36 on Feb 5, 2007 17:54:30 GMT -5
There's no reason to rush him. I never said we should rush him. Again, I don't know where you're getting that. I'm saying we should give him a chance to stick with the NHL club out of camp next year, so that by the time the playoffs roll around, if he's the hot goalie, he has 20-30 NHL starts to go with the 2 full AHL seasons under his belt. Better than betting on Osgood, watching him get injured, and trading for Bill Ranford again. If they don't make room for him to at least back up in Detroit, then he's never going to become a starter. The only thing less plausible than Holland going with a rookie backup is Holland going with a rookie starter. He'll probably have to apprentice at the NHL level for at least one season before the brass trusts him enough. And even that's a stretch. Anyone who thinks that Howard would be allowed to go straight from the AHL to the starter's job in Detroit is kidding themselves. Whether he could handle it or not, we'll never find out, because Holland will never allow it. I think putting him in the NHL next year, even as a backup, is rushing him. I don't think he's ready for it. Who knows, maybe he'll be great in the AHL playoffs and TC next year, and make the team. But based on what he's done so far, I don't think he's ready.
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Post by griffan on Feb 5, 2007 17:57:36 GMT -5
Not calling you stupid, I'm calling your idea stupid, because it is. Howard is not a mediocre AHL goalie. Yeah, someday he might even be as good as Drew MacIntyre. LOL Drew is having one helluva season for Manitoba isn't he? 6th overall in the AHL in Save% and GAA. Not bad for a castoff huh? I'm happy for him. Bottom line for Jimmy is he has to be consistant and at the same time show the Wings he can continually improve his game. I see the improvements in Jimmy from last season. I think he's on the right path. It's his sophomore season and he's struggling a little. Jimmy's numbers will have to do the talking for him. Wins and losses won't be a fair indicator for him or Liv. This team has nowhere near the offense it had last season. We have scored 134 goals, only 6 teams have scored less. We have given up 148 goals which puts us right in the middle of the mix. Just like the season prior to last we are fighting for a playoff spot. Jimmy can't score goals. If he ends up with a GAA in the low 2's and a Save % around 92% They can't possibly have too much to complain about regarding his performance if the Griffins don't make, or succeed, in the playoffs. Brian
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